Suggestions

Random stuff for tntwars

UltraBlack_

My hope and goal: Encourage experimentation and more complex cannons to reduce the generic builds that people just spam all over the map to win with no difficulty. Almost all games look and feel the same. Some ideas (not all of which might be particularly good):
1. Add a very limited amount of TNT to a dispenser, which does however regenerate over time (~5 TNT every 10 seconds? Adjust this for team player counts too (e.g. 2v1))
2. Disallow Auto cannons that use a lever instead. Functionality wise there is no difference, and they too easy to build, which makes the game boring again.
3. Add a hard block limit per player, as to prevent spamming cannons everywhere, and instead encourage experimentation and cannon flexibility. Maybe 40 blocks
4. Powerups that can be collected, e.g. temporary obsidian walls or other structures to protect your cannon while you build it, cannon refills, platforms, blueprints, partial repair of your side, ender pearls, missiles, grenades, ...
5. A higher score per kill for less complex cannons (less blocks currently placed in total?), or for lower tnt spread (map sprayers would get almost no points at all?)
6. Targets that can be shot for extra points (problematic because of generic map sprayers)
7. Tntwars and misslewars combined? some can rush on missiles, some can build cannons to defend their side from missiles (not blow up the portal)
8. If a cannon is hit with tnt, the affected blocks only have a certain probability of being blown up (maybe yet again bound to the amount of blocks you placed on the map?), or alternatively, only blow up redstone and keep the darn dispensers too! (to reduce the cost of being blown up, to further increase the benefit of bigger cannons)
9. Enchant the provided tools. There is nothing more annoying that painstakingly mining certain blocks while under constant fire

Vote in the thread maybe? Most people will probably not like my proposal, but I really do miss the fun times of tntwars.

UltraBlack_

regarding 2: ... instead of redstone clocks that classify them as "automatic"

the tiny suggestion UI really doesn't make it easy to spot mistakes

UltraBlack_

some remnants of generic map sprayers, and their consequences: https://imgur.com/a/XLTkwgi

Picklegoon

holy cope

Picklegoon

just get gud at the game lol, this caters insanely hard to bad players that cant semi

Picklegoon

point two is wrong, autocannons and semi autos are completely different

Picklegoon

Essentially, you can make a good autocannon insanely fast and just leave it there and make another one, meanwhile semi autos you can only build one and must stay there or abandon the cannon. An example is with an autocannon, you make it and run away and make another before enemy can get you, meanwhile with a semi auto you stay rooted, and if an opponent predicts (or sees on certain maps) you making a semi auto, they can counter it with smth like a corner cannon or a sui. You clearly have a terrible understanding of the fundamentals of tnt wars and only see things at a certain level. Get gud then start making these insane takes and people might listen. Thank you

UltraBlack_

how does that distinction matter with any map sprayer?

UltraBlack_

I could semi, and I did for a while, but it just has no appeal. It's not fun when you build all the same cannons each game and there are no interesting cannons, no way for the game to evolve in any way. If all you need is one generic cannon then why play at all

UltraBlack_

It's not about the skill difference, which I'm sure there is one, but for me it's about the fact that TNTWars is just not interesting anymore. The concept is good, and it can be fun, it's just that the players play in a way that is not fun for either side.
To me it doesn't come at a surprise that TNTwars only has very few regular players. New players don't have an incentive to play it again after the opposite team builds a whackass mapsprayer with almost zero effort, while you're trying to actually build something good.

I've tried to come up with my own cannon design, but it just cannot compete with fake autos. These are too easy to build, too strong overall, and therefore too common

UltraBlack_

Do you remember these youtuber tntwars battles? They have very long but somewhat slim maps, where actual firepower and directionality is very important. Generic map sprayers cannot live up to that requirement, which just comes down to a flaw with tntwars itself

Picklegoon

As I just explained

UltraBlack_

walking between two cannons is the smallest inconvenience. I don't get your poinrt

UltraBlack_

it's not like that vastly changes the outcome between an auto and fake-auto

Picklegoon

You don’t have to walk between two cannons, you can leave them on and run away

Vixinity1337

Hell no

_Secrxt_

To make it an even 10, I'll add "Disallow suicide cannons.. again".

With a similar reason that sysfs/UltraBlack had, TNTWars is getting boring asf (from when I was last on). Now days, everybody uses the same/similar cannon making most of everybody insanely predictable.

UltraBlack_

my point is not that you can just run away (which you can by the way, by just running some redstone accross your side). My point is that they are insanely cheap, insanely easy to build, have zero cooldown or anything. They are just boring because there's literally nothing that can be done about them. If you want to build a second cannon and see that the enemy is almost finished, just flick the lever 30 times and all their progress is at zero.
My hate towards them does not come from the fact that they were originally auto and were transformed to manual operation. My hate stems from the fact that they are just whack cannons, and there is no incentive no to use them, because the score system is kills based, and these auto cannons are unpredictable enough to work well

UltraBlack_

so you prefer playing the same game over and over again or wh at

UltraBlack_

you don't even need to think one second about what you're building, just copy what everybody else is building.

Picklegoon

That’s why we experiment and invent new cannons and why we have dif maps

UltraBlack_

ok nobody experiments, nobody invents new cannons and yes we have different maps, but they work with the exact same cannons

Picklegoon

We experiment, that’s why people ask for test games where we test cannons instead of killing eachotyer

UltraBlack_

but nothing ever happens in these test games

Picklegoon

Cubed is modded so some single player cannons won’t work

Jeroeno_Boy

(cubed tnt is not modded)

UltraBlack_

barely modded

Picklegoon

It does. We test things. That’s why it’s called a test.

UltraBlack_

somebody remove the horrible cooldown

Picklegoon

Thought it was modified in some way

UltraBlack_

some things like the explosion behavior have been altered, but it makes no difference in terms of effectiveness or if your cannon will work

Picklegoon

Also, idk why you hate semis and keep proving my point. You can make an auto and run to the **other side of the map** while the cannon shoots, which is the optimal Strat

Picklegoon

Iirc one of the main reasons they where banned and semis aren’t, it’s bc you really can only have one

UltraBlack_

can be easily circumvented.

Picklegoon

It literally can’t tho, even doing that weird thing where you build two cannons they are all close together

UltraBlack_

and again, it's not about the semi/auto part for me. scroll up and read

Jeroeno_Boy

Thanks for taking your time on writing these suggestions, they seem original and maybe I will use some of them in the future. But most of the suggestions here are not the TNTWars we are envisioning. We also don't think some of these suggestions will be fun gameplay wise.

Regarding your issues with semi-automatic cannon. We get it, however simply banning these types cannons will not fix anything. Its still very possible to shoot cannons in (nearly) the same way as semi-auto without any clocks. This will also very likely increase the use of auto-clickers and will generally be very frustrating for most players.

One of the main issues with cubed tntwars is that the pro players are mixed with the newer players. Because of this battles are always very one sided and not fun for the new players. But this is something that sadly cannot be fixed with the current playercount of cubed. Maybe in the future we can do something to resolve this issue.

Picklegoon

They are CLUMPED TOGETHER and not on OPPOSITE SIDES OF THE MAP while you shoot multiple shotguns from dif angles

UltraBlack_

it’s called redstone my man

Picklegoon

You can’t semi from 60 blocked away

Picklegoon

Also autocannons can be made insanely quickly and couple that with not having to wire them all together you can keep making them and eventually make it impossible for you to lose

UltraBlack_

flicking a lever is literally quicker than a torch or repeater clock I don't know what stuff you smoked today

Picklegoon

Wait you think you spam click levers for semi auto? LMAO

UltraBlack_

that's what 99% of players call semi-auto I don't get your point. And you don't seem to realize that this exactly is not my main focfus

Picklegoon

aren’t you like, level 34? No wonder you have such crappy takes

Jeroeno_Boy

Out of question, is this still contributing to the suggestion?

UltraBlack_

it is in fact not, and just senseless bashing of somebody who is in the right "because they say so"

Picklegoon

No, but it’s fun to disprove points with a paper clip foundation of proof

Jeroeno_Boy

Sure... then either stop here or continue in dms.

UltraBlack_

disproof. I think I'm gonna leave you to this

Picklegoon

Already did, ima stop bc jero told me have a good day

UltraBlack_

the banning part should in theory automatically come from a change in gameplay. the 100% fake autos have terrible range, the 50% autos (torch clock and button) have bonkers reach, ...
if you were to add debuffs for random spam like that you'd be more inclined to build different cannons

UltraBlack_

if every game has a random mixture of these debuffs you'd have even less overlap instead of just a shift in cannon style

Jeroeno_Boy

Just like any cannon in TNTWars, range is a mere choice rather than a limitation. A cannon can have (hypothetically speaking) infinite range. One cannot simply fix the scatter issue by increasing the distance between maps or something simulair

UltraBlack_

cannons quickly become more complex with range as you need much more firepower

UltraBlack_

I figured out a nice thing though. You can combine main charge and thrust into the same bundle if you do it correctly

Picklegoon

Btw carpet cannons which you can’t lever spam bc they will blow themselves up are always good

Picklegoon

Only limit is really the build limit

Jeroeno_Boy

Well yes, but it still does not fix the issue.

UltraBlack_

suicide cannons have already been discussed.

Picklegoon

Man this makes me wanna play tnt wars now and build my cancer bunker Strat

UltraBlack_

yes please do something interesting

Picklegoon

Carpet isn’t a sui

UltraBlack_

then they're just generic map sprayers

Picklegoon

Bet hop on, my name is mk9mechman

UltraBlack_

it does fix the issue in the way that it takes much longer to fix a cannon upon taking damage. It also becomes more difficult to get good map coverage from one cannon, as there's kind of an upper limit to how much you wanna blow up at what distance, with acceptable effort

UltraBlack_

it's just a lot more risky to build complex cannons. If a vital part, be it one redstone dust, is blown up your cannon might just vaporize

Picklegoon

Get on tnt wars and stop talking, im bored thanks

Jeroeno_Boy

But thats not an issue tho, if a cannon becomes difficult to repair and make, it will only make the chance of a comeback a lot smaller, making defeat even more certain from the first 2 minutes

UltraBlack_

what I'm trying to say is that may sprayers are less effective at range, as their complexity increases massively if you want good coverage of everything.

> it will only make the chance of a comeback a lot smaller, making defeat even more certain from the first 2 minutes
wlel I have something about that in my proposals above

Jeroeno_Boy

Also, a "new player" will have even less of a chance to win against a pro in these long-range maps. Cannons simply take too long to for them to build, making pro players have an even bigger chance of winning

UltraBlack_

better have them take longer than have them take 10 seconds to build

Jeroeno_Boy

Well..... Lets say I can make an advanced scatter within 10 seconds, and a newbie can make one within a minute

Jeroeno_Boy

That means I'm 6x faster. Now lets scale that up to a cannon that takes me a minute to make. That means they will spend 6 minutes on it.

Jeroeno_Boy

Like I explained earlier, the issue isn't that I can make a game ending cannon within 10 seconds. The issue is that newbies and pro players get forced in the same server. This makes it very hard for newbies to keep motivation since they just get destroyed by pro players grinding for score

UltraBlack_

ok let me elaborate:
- sniper cannons already exist. They aren't hard to build and have very good firepower, at the cost of being very localized
- fake autos have some scatter, are easy to build, but have terrible range
- advanced scatters have a terrible effectiveness vs complexity curve. If you want good map coverage, you'll have to build a ton

Jeroeno_Boy

What do you mean with "Fake auto's"?

UltraBlack_

the shitters with the levers instead of clocks

Jeroeno_Boy

You mean semi-automatic cannons? In that case, please refer to them as "semi-automatic", "semi-auto" or simply "semi" to avoid confustion

UltraBlack_

in my opinion you could just add redstone clocks back into the game, because they're the same picture: https://imgur.com/a/hi5KJJK

Jeroeno_Boy

Image is not loading, also you can make redstone clocks, we never removed them.

UltraBlack_

but why do you have to build these annoying torch clocks or use levers if you could just use repeaters.

Jeroeno_Boy

You can use repeaters

UltraBlack_

... no

Jeroeno_Boy

We have repeaters in the build menu

UltraBlack_

comparators*

Jeroeno_Boy

Oh yeah no we don't have those. and again, your screenshot is not loading

UltraBlack_

is for me since I fixed the link

Pikachu1p

Wait so you want to combine tnt wars with misslewars basically if you allow players to go to other side it will become more of a pvp mini game if anything?

Jeroeno_Boy

I myself also don't see this working, most TNT cannons are too overpowered for it to really work out

UltraBlack_

literally anything to make the game interesting again

Pikachu1p

Your idea of interesting is nerfing every player to make it less skill based.

UltraBlack_

what

Pikachu1p

This is inaccurate if a game ends after 10 shots than your playing against a noob.
Situational depending on map as well on big maps there is no single cannon that can reach everywhere.

UltraBlack_

then build the same cannon five times like it makes no difference
if you don't do it your mate does it or somebody else does it I don't know

Pikachu1p

Again the same cannon won't always work because of range sometimes different cannons are better especially when player takes high ground

UltraBlack_

there's a collection of like five different cannon designs that or slight variations get used every game

UltraBlack_

I've got 29 levels, which I got over the period of maybe 3 years and in all that time the meta has shifted maybe a single time, and only by a slight bit

UltraBlack_

every god damn game is a copy of the previous. Nothing has changed

Jeroeno_Boy

keep it nice

UltraBlack_

one good step would already be to ban cannons that use the same TNT for both propulsion and ammo

Pikachu1p

Sorry but like I'm on lvl 30 and been playing for a few months on my Alt anyway

UltraBlack_

what am I supposed to do? Play with the same ass cannons? That's the only way you can compete, by building the same trash. I hate that stuff already, and building it myself makes it not more appealing

Pikachu1p

Yes play with same ass cannons cough cough

UltraBlack_

so I don't play a ton. Huge gaps in between to be exact but I get a pretty precise overview of the meta as it changes, or well, doesn't change

UltraBlack_

let me pick an example that even you will understand: What if there were no minecraft updates at all and you could not mod the game or anything?

Picklegoon

So you gonna join a match or?

Pikachu1p

Tbf the only cannon with least variations are shotguns, baros have tons of variations.

Picklegoon

You sitting here talking isn’t proving crap

Pikachu1p

I'm referring to meta shotgun the alternating one there is really only 2 variations.

Picklegoon

I hate flat map

Pikachu1p

That is some wacky baro

Picklegoon

My alternating one or?

Pikachu1p

The one in imgur link

UltraBlack_

every game uses these two cannon variations. Snipers have vanished since they are just not effective enough. It's easy and appealing to be lazy and let the spray handle the game

Jeroeno_Boy

Those are very unusual cannons may I add

Picklegoon

I just like it

Pikachu1p

When I get back to my pc i will send ones I see most used.

Jeroeno_Boy

Build up

Pikachu1p

Learn send them tnt professors yt channel

UltraBlack_

they are in fact not. They are very common. The second one is just a variation of the loop with the sticks on top
btw that cannon is at build height, so no building up

Pikachu1p

As I say tnt wars is not for the weak one must be willing to treat every match like one step closer to destroying someone

Picklegoon

My waterfall? I like it too ya easy to build and does damage

Jeroeno_Boy

I am well aware that they are variations of other cannons. Its just that you don't see these variations a lot

UltraBlack_

oh yeah just copy others designs. Back to square one. Zero proper innovation. Just copying from the good guys

Pikachu1p

They are not copyrighted

UltraBlack_

why can't tntwars be a battle of custom designs, why always use the refined designs that some random youtuber put on the internet

Picklegoon

Hop on and play a match and I’ll show you

Pikachu1p

I reccomend doing a test round if you want that lol.

UltraBlack_

why are you so condescending. That's my point. Tntwars is not about innovation anymore. These test sessions are merely a playground to test stolen

Pikachu1p

Stolen don't exist their is only fair use.

Picklegoon

apparently no one tests in tests rounds according to him

UltraBlack_

so what you are saying is don't use custom designs in proper battles, just use them to show off how it can not compete with the generics

Pikachu1p

Play with wrong crowd and you will get that.

Jeroeno_Boy

Wym random youtuber put on the internet? Most cannons that you see have originated from Cubedcraft. There has barely been any activity about tntwars on youtube lately

Picklegoon

Use customs designs we approve, one kill closer to next level lol

Pikachu1p

If you don't want to lose yes forcing people to not play the way they want to is taking away freedom and not as fun.

UltraBlack_

I sure hope that's the case. (and 6 cannons the last 6 years? xD)

Pikachu1p

Actually I do have a alternating baro and angled ladder cannon that I made in recent year

UltraBlack_

you really think I'm just some random idiot not wanting to lose, and thus trying to force a custom ruleset upon every player as to nerf them, thank you very much. You understood nothing

Jeroeno_Boy

There has been a lot more innovation than that, its just that you really rarely see these newer cannons since they aren't that good compared to your standard cannons

Picklegoon

I invented three in one month, there’s diag snipers, sleepingz waterfall cannon, pika made two last year, jero made a alternating sniper I still don’t understand, the list goes on

UltraBlack_

which is why you'd want to motivate players to innovate, to experiment, to combine, to mess about, instead of building the same cannons every game. That's why I said earlier that it would make sense to randomize effects or debuffs every game so that players have to learn to adapt to change instead of taking off-the-shelf solutions

Pikachu1p

Bro I have innovating addiction I don't need forces rules to inovate

UltraBlack_

currently innovation just means "slap more dispensers on and it'll work", and that innovation can go fuck off

Jeroeno_Boy

I think you misunderstood, there has been **a lot of new cannons** in the past couple of years, its just that the meta is pretty much set in stone.

Pikachu1p

I agree

UltraBlack_

... bla bla what I wanted to say is that innovation currently means that everybody just slaps more and more dispensers onto their designs instead of refining space efficiency or similar things

Pikachu1p

Umm no

Jeroeno_Boy

You mean to say that an alternating diagonal sniper rifle is not innovative?

UltraBlack_

exactly that. Look at any game. Random player. "Oh that'll need some more dispensers"

Pikachu1p

Theirs fun innovations and than theirs efficient fun innovations I aim for both.

UltraBlack_

that is exactly what I want to see in the game, but the meta system is shit if it cannot have change
(when did I say this is not what I want)

Jeroeno_Boy

I do use it quite often actually, not that I'm online often anymore

UltraBlack_

single player tntwars or waht

Pikachu1p

The more innovations found the harder it is to innovate because there is limited variables and once a lot of combinations have been used theirs not much more even if you force rules.

Pikachu1p

I do want single player tnt wars or multi players on 1 team to test cannon on empty side

UltraBlack_

which is what I'm sayinnnnggg. The game is flawed because the only variety is three maps, there's no need to adapt to anything

Jeroeno_Boy

I think tntwars is pretty much 95% solved at this point, we have figured out the use of nearly every trick in the game (me and pika)

Jeroeno_Boy

You learn to adapt once you as a skilled player play against other skilled players with no newbies around

UltraBlack_

back to square one. Adapting = building a generic consisting of three blocks because everybody uses that and it's the strongest cannon anyway, and it holds back the enemy, yada, yada, yada

Pikachu1p

I think you understood nothing.

Jeroeno_Boy

I think you are not willing to understand sysfs

UltraBlack_

adapting in this game means copying the pros, and the pros copy themselves because they don't innovate

Pikachu1p

Trust me get to a high lvl and play a 2v2 or 3v3 with only pros and things will be interesting.

Jeroeno_Boy

Alright I think this conversations is over. One who is not willing to listen will not change their mind.

UltraBlack_

understand what?? You're saying that you need to adapt to playing against other players, which means building faster and stronger, which means bujilding the same shit as everybody, beacuse they have already figured that part out

Jeroeno_Boy

sysfs, Are you as skilled as me or pika? If not I don't thing you will be able to speak out of experience here, and your words become mere intelectual play over the experiences you have had so far.

Pikachu1p

.

UltraBlack_

I'm not as skilled as you, and what does that mean huh? You build all the same cannons every game, and I could do so to, I just don't have the muscle memory for these but if I wanted I could build them. Does that make me a better player? No. Does that make the game fun? No. Does that provoke innovation? No. But it does blow up eveyrthing, and is good at that

Jeroeno_Boy

A game between 2 pro's is very different than a game between a pro with newbies. Its a lot more strategical and rather weird cannons get used.

Pikachu1p

He refuses to improve so he wants forced rules to make his time easier

Jeroeno_Boy

Also, buiding faster is a step to becomming a better player, there is no use in pretending its not

Pikachu1p

True especially on big maps.

UltraBlack_

I refuse to build generic designs, and I see the system as flawed, because all you need to do is remember two cannons and you win if you build it a bit quicker than other players.

Like come on. What strategy? Build a carpet bomber and mix in a shotgun of some kidn?

Jeroeno_Boy

Actually, its also the case on smaller maps. Then you sometimes see some really creative tactics.

Pikachu1p

The smallest 1 2 strats time a sui perfectly or build alternating shotgun dead center in back of map

UltraBlack_

I have very strong feelings about tntwars, because I used to be super ass and I tried to work my way up by experimenting and modifying, which was quite possible on perkelle, and you'd usually have a new design every so often, and it'd be interesting. On cubed the same game runs on repeat

Pikachu1p

The issue is you stopped trying to improve

Jeroeno_Boy

Pro players know how to counter nearly any cannon. In every cannon there is always a blindspot, no matter how destructive it may seem. We are easily capable of finding such spots and take out the enemy with a precicely calculated shot. There is a lot of tactics and strategies when its pro vs pro, but I suppose you are still not willing to understand any of this.

UltraBlack_

I never stopped. I was just working on some interesting, versatile, compact designs, but you can only build streamlined designs becaues it's all about who can build faster

UltraBlack_

yeah I know. Usually that means suicide cannon or corner sprayer or some shit. You don't need to be a scientist to see through that system

Jeroeno_Boy

I can understand that Perkelle's death may have saddened you, since was a way less competitive tntwars. But keep in mind that these issues could have very likely also started to exist on Perkelle if it was still around

UltraBlack_

perkelle never had that fixated a playerbase

Pikachu1p

perkelle did not have a leveling system I believe but pros were still feared and used very few optimal cannons

Jeroeno_Boy

No they didn't lmao

UltraBlack_

My focus is reusability, flexibility, but that is just not honoured on cubed. On cubed the main focus is big boom in small time. That is not difficult, but you end up with all the same designs every game because there are only so many designs you can build in a short timeframe

Pikachu1p

shotguns were the hottest cannon of that day, and true autos I like to call the ones that dont have a back and front and just maintain themselves

Pikachu1p

if you give a hour for match people would bunker for a absurd amount of time

Jeroeno_Boy

You know reusable and flexible cannons are all the rage right? Most cannons (atleast I build) are very flexible. With minor modifications they can hit in a completely different area

UltraBlack_

then you don't understand the whole point of this thread. You're trying to prove my changes wrong in the current system, which will not work. A new system is required, where these flaws have been addressed

Pikachu1p

if your not able to use your designs than you were simply building too big or were not very wise when it came to knowing when to use them big cannons can be good when you have players on your team to buy you some time

UltraBlack_

most games have two players. Which teammates.

Pikachu1p

Your changes just give players even fewer options making it less fun tbh

Pikachu1p

depends on the day when I'm on theirs normally 4-6 players

Pikachu1p

theirs compact and theirs just not efficient :

UltraBlack_

it's tiny, and I have an even smaller one, and it has bonkers firepower, but you don't need good firepower. you need to be fsat

Jeroeno_Boy

Its hard to build tho

UltraBlack_

the tradeoff between small and large is that your complexity increaes. Which is why there is no change in cannon designs anywhere

Pikachu1p

maybe the wrong innovations ...

Jeroeno_Boy

No innovation is wrong

UltraBlack_

what fucking innovation man. look at this server. The same cannons as 6 years ago. You're telling me that all the interesting designs are bad because they innovated the "wrong way"??

Jeroeno_Boy

Our innovations generally strive for flexibility, ease of use and destructive power.

Picklegoon

this

UltraBlack_

you're telling me that all the good discarded designs in the last 6 years just did the "wrong kind" of innovation???

Picklegoon

also if you hate the meta have you tried ***countering it with a cannon made specifically for that purpose?***

Pikachu1p

they innovated in same direction but not in the direction your going for

UltraBlack_

the best way to counter the meta is to counter it with itself

Jeroeno_Boy

So true

Picklegoon

wait till he goes to myxtrys tnt wars museum

UltraBlack_

how many designs? Three?

Jeroeno_Boy

There are over 200 designs I thought

Picklegoon

60 iirc?

Pikachu1p

for example shotguns became more compact using stacked dispencers in a smaller area to hit a wider area of tnt, baros had extended to left or to the right with some being with stacked dispencers

UltraBlack_

that's like the least complex innovation ever

Picklegoon

I would know i helped make it

Jeroeno_Boy

Thanks for describing innovation here

Pikachu1p

innovation does not always have to be complex somtimes it's just minimal changes with massive improvements to effiency

UltraBlack_

> the best way to counter the meta is to counter it with itself, as I said before it's a perpetuum mobile
the last thing I'm gonna say here is what I said before, to come full circle. If you can only counter the meta with itself, you cannot innovate because the meta is always too good for innovation. As such, the system is flawed as the meta cannot be changed. The meta should never be set in stone, or you get what we have now, an infinite loop of the same game over and over again.
I'm done here, if nobody gets it then whatever

Jeroeno_Boy

Anyway, im gonna go now. I don't really see any of these changes getting implemented into TNTWars since its not the type of TNTWars we are striving for. Please feel free to make other suggestions tho, I'd always be interested to hear your oppinions

Jeroeno_Boy

If you want the meta to change, you need to come up with a better, more effective meta

UltraBlack_

do you even read bro.
The meta cannot be changed, because the game concept is too primitive

Jeroeno_Boy

Every meta can be changed tho, its just rather difficult to change the current one.

Picklegoon

close the thread and save everyone a headache

UltraBlack_

please

Jeroeno_Boy

I can't. Anyway, cya

Pikachu1p

it will get downvoted to oblivion anyway

Pikachu1p

chances are the only upvotes will be from noobs with a noob mindset.

UltraBlack_

wow thank you for humiliating literally anybody else. This is the reason why the gamemode will never gain in popularity because only the old "pros" who think they're the cream of the crop see themselves as worthy of playing Tntwars, because "the rest, ugh, they'll never understand", and whatnot. Go on, gatekeep tntwars for yourself and see the gamemode die

Pikachu1p

buddy you should have a chat with players like superclutch and hypostasy they are not the best of the best but at least they are getting there. As I said before tnt wars not for the weak only those who strive to improve no matter how much they lose will get far.

UltraBlack_

it's ironic how you say that as we've previously established that nothing usable has come from change the last 6 years

Pikachu1p

your free to think that way

UltraBlack_

which sounds to me like you're agreeing

Pikachu1p

I said neither cannons wont always stay optimal they will have slight changes overtime

UltraBlack_

if you ditch all the slight changes you're left with something that works almost just as well and really didn't need all the small changes after all

Jeroeno_Boy

I just quickly wanna add that recently some pretty new players have reached the top 50 chart and gained the pro level

UltraBlack_

I'd argue that is pretty easy if you play "like" the pros

Jeroeno_Boy

Still required dedication

Pikachu1p

no even if you learn a cannon you still have to learn how to efficiently use and build it

UltraBlack_

eh the muscle memory is easy to train, and the designs are just what everybody else builds so not really difficult

Pikachu1p

everyone actually has different ways of quickly building smth and some prefer to use buttons

Pikachu1p

the only thing thats common with a alternating shotgun is placing redstone on the ground to then use it to place 2 dispencers in same direction above it

UltraBlack_

that's just like any other block orientation trick though

Pikachu1p

yeah only the steps taken to semi are most different I activate back once than front than put lever on upper side of back flick it than turn it off than when one tnt explodes place lever on right place to than consistantly semi some people instantly semi it while at front of cannon through changing steps for placing torch clock

UltraBlack_

that's like any continuous automatic semi with manual reload isn't it

Pikachu1p

idk

Pikachu1p

for reload I normally just blow it up than rebuild because it quicker

Vixinity1337

Yes

UltraBlack_

99% of people don't

Pikachu1p

are u 99% of people?

UltraBlack_

list me all active players vs total gamemode joins

UltraBlack_

the leaderboard in the lobby is also not a way to get active players because if you simply are a member of the winning team you get one win, meaning that there's probably about two players doing the heavy lifting and the rest is just trying and failing to build something for themselves

Pikachu1p

im aware if anything theirs currently 12 active players they just alternate so it's usually 4 different people every once and a while

Pikachu1p

to be 99% of active players their would need to be 2 people playing total also some are not playing because they cant but plan to later. School, work etc.

UltraBlack_

I boldly assume that the gamemode has several thousand different joins, and only maybe 20 actually continued
that's a horrible quota

Pikachu1p

thousand is a bit much tbh they have maintained a decent amount of joins in recent years but usually like 20 active players than 10 players that may join than never return.

UltraBlack_

I don't think a thousand is too far fetched. While it is a small network, you get a new player every so often, that quickly adds up

Pikachu1p

cube has never even had 1000 players join total I believe at once anyway

UltraBlack_

they're present on many server lists, and I found out about cubed from trying to find a tntwars server

Pikachu1p

false a new player every so often and a old player leave every so often

UltraBlack_

more like 50 people join and one og leaves

Pikachu1p

jero got all the facts I bet

UltraBlack_

yeah I'd be interested in the hard numbers

UltraBlack_

Different idea: Island based TNTwars: Each player has their own kind of "island", where they can build cannons. Your block cap increases with each kill, but there is a hard limit on the tnt you have at your disposal. It has to be manually refilled, and in a battle players have to battle each other with their island
then there's some kind of leaderboard where you can try to reach the top for idk some bonus for next season, and you maybe have a season reset every two months

UltraBlack_

this means you could also fortify your island, a the cost of wasting blocks or so

Picklegoon

then make a new suggestion

Picklegoon

or, insane idea, make your own server for these complete game overhauls

UltraBlack_

"complete game overhauls"
more like reviving tntwars

Jeroeno_Boy

Make a seperate suggestion for it.

Picklegoon

***man i wonder what i suggested an hour ago****

Jeroeno_Boy

I don't know what thats supposed to mean

Picklegoon

i told him the same thing an hour ago

Jeroeno_Boy

Oh I see, I just didn't bother reading any of it since it should be a seperate suggestion

UltraBlack_

don't see the point really. This is more like my idea dump for anything regarding changing tntwars. I won't spam the suggestions channel with random stuff

Picklegoon

and all of your ideas are terrible, you do realize that with this change you will kill off every single og tnt wars player right?

Jeroeno_Boy

Then I won't read it and never take it into accunt, thats the point of making it a seperate suggestion

UltraBlack_

the 20 ogs that no new player gives to wet farts about

UltraBlack_

also main point of tntwars, building cannons is not lost. You're just making it out to be the downfall of everything tnt

Picklegoon

You wont revive a gamemode by killing off half the players

UltraBlack_

you're fed up with my desire for change aren't you

Jeroeno_Boy

No, like I said earlier I'd love to read more of your ideas. But you have to respect the system in place when doing so

UltraBlack_

but if you want me to drown the channel in individual suggestions, I'll not resist

Picklegoon

this dude is a massive clown im not gonna talk here anymore these are the WORST takes ive ever seen

Jeroeno_Boy

Aslong as they are all suggestions, its fine by me

Jeroeno_Boy

I don't think you should treat someone just for sharing their ideas

gibbiemonster

#1: why? There's no point to this, it's just annoying
#2: Hell no. Auto cannons ruin the game and this will be abused to hell and back
#3: ???
#4: I do like this idea, maybe similar to the walls/platforms and such in missilewars?
#5: ???
#6: You already outlined the issue with this in your suggestion?
#7: ???
#8: Blast resistance would like to know your location
#9: but why

gibbiemonster

overall, I think #4 should be added but the rest is just why

UltraBlack_

> #2: Hell no. Auto cannons ruin the game and this will be abused to hell and back
that's the whole point. Get rid of them and their lever counterparts that work just as well

UltraBlack_

I'm currently cooking up a whole nother game concept. Sending that soon

Pikachu1p

Or just get better at the game

Pikachu1p

Semi auto cannons are fun + as long as their is a Redstone activater block semi auto will be possible

Pikachu1p

Jero also stated removing clocks entirely would promote use of auto clickers

Jeroeno_Boy

And for those who choose to play without auto clickers will have medical issues

Pikachu1p

Lol your not wrong my wrist hurts thinking about it

gibbiemonster

found one!

gibbiemonster

I have nothing against semi auto cannons; people will just abuse everything and ruin the game. Plus, if you need one to play the game, you should probably be focusing on not sucking at the game before landing the worst takes on planet earth

Pikachu1p

Oof lol

UltraBlack_

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stop right here. Read #1595 instead.